A question: If "facts" as basic as time, space, gravity, historical events, and international relations are open to question...what absolute facts does anyone have that can forever be unchallenged? For JWs or otherwise, it is merely an excuse for a temporary certainty. This, I opine.
S K Ditta
JoinedPosts by S K Ditta
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43
It seems that many witnesses simply dont care about facts?
by stuckinarut2 ini often wonder if the current crop of witnesses, especially the youth and younger ones simply don't care about facts?.
i mean for some, even with knowledge of the past scandals, misleading teachings, mistruths, etc etc, they simply don't care.
"it is the truth after all".. they are so intertwined in the operations and activities of the society, that they cant see anything outside of it.
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River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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S K Ditta
after sailing around for one year Noah ends up in the same area.
Did he sail around? Perhaps he remained more-or-less in the same place, thankful for his existence and that of his family, as-well-as the animals with him. Quite similar to our existence on earth, actually, seen in the context of a vast universe or even the solar-system.
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This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe
by cofty insometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.
various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.
i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.
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S K Ditta
I think it's a common mistake to imagine that we can actually choose our beliefs. It's better to ask questions, study, debate and reflect. Our beliefs happen while we engage in that process.
Pardon me, Cofty. This response was lost in the avalanche of information. Hence, the delay. Thank you, for taking the time to respond. Besides, others have had so much to contribute. Sorry that, I have no specific arguments or counter-arguments for the OP or later. For that, it may simply be disregarded by you or any other.
Your response is fascinating. Hence the question(open to all, of course): Are beliefs merely a function of the intellect? For if they are, then those are understandably subject to changes. Else, they are impervious to external, transitory factors.
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Why is Trump so effective???
by Coded Logic ini think trump is an absolute idiot.
his tactics, however, are undeniably effective.
thought i'd just put together a short list of some of the things he does.
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S K Ditta
It's a link to a nice video. Trump, Marine LePen, Nigel Farage and similar opportunistic leaders expose weaknesses in an inherently flawed system.
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Is ignorance an excuse?
by stuckinarut2 ini have always maintained that i hold nothing personally against individual witnesses, even those that have actively slandered our name and reputation based on the actions of some individuals.. i have often said that all these ones, (even the ones spreading gossip), are victims of the culture of the organization, and the directions of the gb.. but recently i have been rethinking this, and wonder if ignorance is really an acceptable excuse?.
i mean, with so much information now readily available about the society, its origins, its scandals, issues and conduct, is it simply ok for a witness to remain wilfully ignorant about the organization that dictates every aspect of their lives?.
is ignorance an excuse?.
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S K Ditta
Hope is a very powerful reason.
Muslim immigrants traveled rough seas by boat in hope of a better life in Greece, or Germany, or some other EU country. They were not ignorant of the possibility of rejection or death. Many were escaping war.
Individual JWs might nurture similar hopes, mistakenly believing that its fulfillment rests only within the walls of an organization.
I suppose, this makes some sense.
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Were You Ever A True Believer?
by minimus ini was raised in the religion and for the most part believed that my religion was truth.
i recognized some mistakes were occasionally made but felt that nobody is perfect.
then i smartened up and realized how dumb so many of the beliefs are....was there ever a time that you truly believed you had the "truth"?.
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S K Ditta
step back and think.
claiming infallibility
Thank you for sharing these phrases of insight.
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Feeling the Guilt
by Saethydd ini'm currently disfellowshipped and living at home with my parents, but because they are both still devout jws i have to keep going to the meetings and crap because i don't want to risk getting thrown out until i finish college or find a job that will let me support myself and go to college.. yesterday, my mother rode with me to the meeting and told me how much my best friend and my oldest sister are missing me, and it just tears me apart because during the meeting i was practically counting the minutes till it was over.
it didn't help matters that i had to sit with my family because the library was closed off, thus forcing me to follow along with the meeting on my tablet instead of reading something useful or interesting like i normally do.. when i got home i just cried out in frustration because it feels like no matter what i do, i am making the wrong choice.
either i have to keep pretending to support an organization that has caused so much pain to so many people, or i have to abandon my family and friends to it so i can save myself.
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S K Ditta
Thanks, I appreciate having some support through all of this, and I'm just sorry that the average JW will probably never know what kind of people you really are. Instead, they will forever think of you as "wicked apostates" that want to mislead them.
I was already applying some of the practical advice given here, but all the same, I appreciate that you took the effort to relay it. Additionally, it helps me to feel a little more at ease with the plans I already have in place.
These are words of a thinking person with constructive thoughts.
May I say, please try to be of help to your parents where possible...An act of kindness to them, sometimes spontaneous?
I see, as a new person here, people do listen.
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River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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S K Ditta
yeah, they must have surely provided a way past those pesky twirling swords at the entrances?
Those swords - real or imaginary - could never do the same "real" damage to humans as the act of massacring millions in the crusades, or dropping bombs from drones.
But if those swords inspired later readers to reflect on consequences of their actions, and choose differently, then those swords are good.
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45
River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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S K Ditta
my·thol·o·gy
plural noun: mythologies
1.
a collection of myths, especially one belonging to a particular religious or cultural tradition.
"Ganesa was the god of wisdom and success in Hindu mythology"
a set of stories or beliefs about a particular person, institution, or situation, especially when exaggerated or fictitious.synonyms: myth(s), legend(s), folklore, folk tales, folk stories, lore, tradition"no ancient culture is without its mythology" Mythology has inspired great art. It gave humans something higher than the physical limitations of our realm, a greater meaning. Myths have their place.
For instance, we call a man Prime Minister or President. What power do they have, if their position is considered meaningless by the army, the population, or those participating in election.
The rivers of Eden have "nurtured" beliefs in civilization. That surely must count for something!
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River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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S K Ditta
Depending on what outcome you are after
Interesting choice of words. Very apt in the age of "echo chambers"/"post-truth" on the Internet! Thanks.